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Old December 19th, 2013, 06:15 AM   #1
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Roosevelt and Florida Strain

For those who attended the meeting on gizzard shad problems at Rosy, was there any discussion of introducing Florida strain LMB?

Seems Lake Chickamauga in Tennessee has gizzard shad and then some.

http://www.nooga.com/164697/twra-rev...on_object_map=[226415847538929]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

http://www.chickamaugalake.info/FishingChart.asp

I know G&F is against introducing to combat a problem so I'm not sure how a pile of Florida strain would make it worse?
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Old December 19th, 2013, 12:10 PM   #2
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Seems like it might be a reasonable, doable solution. No one knows how they will do until it is tried. Putting Florida Strain in Lake Mojave or the Topock Marsh would eventually put them into Havasu and Pleasant as well as the waters around Yuma.
Eventually being the key in those limited stockings.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 12:45 PM   #3
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Florida Strain Stockings

(information per Andy Clark Region VI Fish Program Specialist 12/'04)

In 1970, 1972 & 2000 Canyon received 500 each stocking
In 1980 Pleasant received 142
In 1980 Roosevelt received 1110
All stockings were with fingerling size bass.
San Carlos Lake also received stocks of Florida strain in the late 80's

(information per Research Biologist Bill Stewart 7/'08)

In 2008 Saguaro received 23,000 1"-2"
In 2008 Canyon received 23,000 1"-2"
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Old December 20th, 2013, 01:14 PM   #4
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For those who attended the meeting on gizzard shad problems at Rosy, was there any discussion of introducing Florida strain LMB?

Seems Lake Chickamauga in Tennessee has gizzard shad and then some.

http://www.nooga.com/164697/twra-rev...on_object_map=[226415847538929]&action_type_map=[%22og.likes%22]&action_ref_map=[]

http://www.chickamaugalake.info/FishingChart.asp

I know G&F is against introducing to combat a problem so I'm not sure how a pile of Florida strain would make it worse?
It can't make anything worse. It's just a typical G&F response! They don't even know what was done by their own department in the past. Once again more lack of research and unfounded B.S. opinion. It's easier and cheaper for them to take a do nothing approach to the problem. Everyone needs to realize that the warm water fisheries just do not matter in the least to AZ G&F. It's all about trout for them.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 01:30 PM   #5
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Sweet more Florida Strain!!! Now, how do we fix the gizzard shad problem??
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Old December 20th, 2013, 01:36 PM   #6
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Sweet more Florida Strain!!! Now, how do we fix the gizzard shad problem??
Just ask G&F!
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Old December 20th, 2013, 03:22 PM   #7
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Just ask G&F!
That's why I made that sarcastic question. G&F has no idea what to do when it comes to our warm water lakes....
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Old December 20th, 2013, 03:52 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by crazy cranker View Post
Florida Strain Stockings

(information per Andy Clark Region VI Fish Program Specialist 12/'04)

In 1970, 1972 & 2000 Canyon received 500 each stocking
In 1980 Pleasant received 142
In 1980 Roosevelt received 1110
All stockings were with fingerling size bass.
San Carlos Lake also received stocks of Florida strain in the late 80's

(information per Research Biologist Bill Stewart 7/'08)

In 2008 Saguaro received 23,000 1"-2"
In 2008 Canyon received 23,000 1"-2"
Crazy Cranker - I seem to remember someone telling me 7-8 years ago that Saguaro also received some Florida strain largemouth bass back in the 1970's. Is it possible that in 1970 and 1972 that Saguaro was stocked also? Thanks.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:01 PM   #9
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I believe after the last Golden Alga kill there were both Northern and Florida strains stocked in Canyon, Apache and Saguaro. There was a issue in some of the first stocking where Florida's were either ordered or wrongly delivered and Northern's received.

AZGF were looking at Camelot Bass. Then were not aware of Gorilla or Tiger bass, a hybrid strain between Florida and Northern. The cross breading of these two species produced a fast growing bass that stayed very aggressive after reaching 10 pounds.

The Roundtable meeting back in September had no action plan to deal with the Gizzard Shad (GS) problem. It was reported that GS have a life expectancy of 10 years growing to a length over 15 inches or more. But logically there are a few directions to go but there has been nothing done to move forward and announce a plan of attack. When evaluating the most non-evasive way to reduce the problem would be netting the GS. To think that purchasing bass to reduce the population would be a solution at this current time is not a feasible plan, in the future they will help with some of the control but then when a single female GS can deposit over a million eggs at a time you need look at this problem from the eggs to maturity of the GS. Bluegill, Crappie and Bass have to play a roll to control this issue. A GS that is at full maturity and 15 inches long (or more) is going to be difficult to be eaten by a largemouth, and you are not going to purposely introduce another species of fish into Roosevelt to take care of the GS population. Just my opinion is a commercial netting operation will have to be brought in to reduce the population and then some game fish species will also be killed. Restocking of Bass, Crappie and Bluegill might be a normal occurrence every couple of years. The GS issue has been known about since 2008 and also not suspected to have gotten far down the Salt River chain. But there is an angler on here that claims to have seen them in the canals of Mesa.

There is thought that the problem with low survey population counts of Bass, Crappie and Bluegill might be directly related to adult GS stirring up the bottom of the lakes to find sources of food and destroying their beds. One direction to this solution is to place fish habitat in the form of concrete igloos shaped Reef Balls that weigh a thousand pounds or more. This is to protect the small fry of the game fish species. These concrete igloos would be floated out to a spot and then the air bladders allowed to deflate and sink the igloos. These reef balls would be placed in 15+ feet deep water. I would hate to hit one with a lower unit. Kiss a thousand goodbye real quick.

One troubling issue I directly asked a question to AZGF was how are your surveys conducted, same time of the year, same weather conditions etc. I received a yes answer to that. What puzzled me was being told that they do a survey of 25 spots, of which 5 spots are taken all the time and the rest random. To present data like this is a crap shoot and I would think that they would be better off taking a survey of 20 spots that are random and then 20 spots taken the same time survey after survey and overlap the data.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:11 PM   #10
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Still don't understand why spotted bass would be out of the question, high metabolism bass that loves gizzards and always eats no matter what age they are, honestly seems like something that would put a bigger dent into the gizzards than Florida strain would. just my two cents.
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #11
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How about Peacock bass?
Get some three bar action in Az!!
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Old December 20th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #12
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Still don't understand why spotted bass would be out of the question, high metabolism bass that loves gizzards and always eats no matter what age they are, honestly seems like something that would put a bigger dent into the gizzards than Florida strain would. just my two cents.
If the spotted bass still eat a lot during the colder months in Arizona, when the metabolism and eating of the Florida strain slow down, then maybe the spotted bass will put a greater dent in the gizzard shad than the Florida strain?
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Old December 20th, 2013, 08:18 PM   #13
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Easy solutions to fix gizzard shad issue....

Go to Plez and net say 1000 striped bass and drop them in Rosy....problem fixed....and you now will have a fishery that support 60 pound stripers...maybe it would be something like Lake Havasu

Your going to have to figure out how to keep them out of Apache, Canyon, and Sag though...

On a sidenote, they minus well put some gizzard shad in Plez, those stripers arent getting bigger eating bluegill, whites, and little threadfins
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Old December 20th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #14
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From everything I've heard, the gizzard shad is really tough. It doesn't seem like Spots would work because they won't be able to eat the large GS either. Introducing Stripers brings other issues and they will have to get pretty large to be able to eat the GS....trading one problem for another.

Do we know how the gizzard shad got into Roosevelt? I know this is radical but I'm wondering if the best solution wouldn't be to just drain the lake and then restock it. It would take a couple of years to recover but I wonder if this wouldn't be better than fighting this for the next 10+ years without a real solution. The only challenge is to keep the gizzard shad from getting back in the lake.

Seems like a really difficult problem.
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Old December 21st, 2013, 07:04 AM   #15
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Easy solutions to fix gizzard shad issue....

Go to Plez and net say 1000 striped bass and drop them in Rosy....problem fixed....and you now will have a fishery that support 60 pound stripers...maybe it would be something like Lake Havasu

Your going to have to figure out how to keep them out of Apache, Canyon, and Sag though...

On a sidenote, they minus well put some gizzard shad in Plez, those stripers arent getting bigger eating bluegill, whites, and little threadfins
There are a few gizzards had down as far as Havasu on the river now. They will get into Pleasant eventually.
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