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-   -   Bringing Muskies back to Arizona... (https://www.azbasszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=227562)

Delw March 18th, 2016 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B SHEP (Post 1796289)
Northern Pike do well in Ashurst, Striped Bass do well in Pleasant, Flatheads do well in Bartlett, and Walleye did well in the Salt River Chain when they were being stocked. Bass do well all over...

What makes you believe Muskies would not do well in one or all of those lakes if they can seek refuge and have a food source during the warmest months of the year?

northern pike have been slowly removed from ashurts for a while and like lake mary its been getting harder to find quality fish over the last 5-6 years.
striped bass do well at pleasant by number wise size wise like northerns they dont.

walleyes are stocked and dont do well unless we have lots of rains like the other fish.

even flatheads arent that great right now. almost every fish species is doing well number wise but there ****ing dinks.
so pull your head out of your ass for 5 mins and try to figure out why.
it has to do with nutrients in the water.

everytime we get good runs offs fish thrive everywhere in AZ this has been a proven fact not a therory its a proven fact.

if you cant get rain which equals run off which equals nutrients then your ****ed. thats it the most important thing to fish besides food. and water to live it.

heres an example. goto a retruant and look at all the fat ****s then look at all the skinny people. fat ****s are eating good healthy stuff. skinny people are eating Salads.


Delw



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HugeEuge57 March 18th, 2016 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Delw (Post 1796209)
Yeah HugeEuge57 quit trying to crush his dreams its important to someone.

Says the guy that shreds everything the muskie guy says.

This guy is out for his own agenda plain and simple. He tried it on another site until he got banned...then he came here to try it all over again. He doesn't care about the bass population in any lake and will do what he has to, to get his idea approved. It's sad really.

And when a point is made he ignores it and then comes up with some unproven nonsense that he says is true but when asked for proof...has none.

RookieBoy March 18th, 2016 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by James (Post 1796129)
what would be awesome is if we had more signatures for bullsharks than musky.

signed. Catching a shark would be cool too!

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=...37&FORM=VRDGAR

HugeEuge57 March 18th, 2016 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B SHEP (Post 1796185)
I'm unsure as to how Bullsharks are related to the subject. :)

The simple truth is that I'd rather see bull sharks in the lakes out here than tiger muskie

B SHEP March 18th, 2016 02:08 PM

Seems awfully incredible that you want me to try and figure out why all the fish in Arizona are dinks when that idea and thought is far from the truth.

Bartlett has a good, fish-able population of large Flatheads. Ashurst once produced trophy Pike before people decided they were getting out of control due to reproduction (Tiger Muskies are sterile and you would be extremely lucky to have successful reproduction from pure Muskellunge in Arizona). There have been several very large Stripers caught in Pleasant. The Arizona Game and Fish also took a lot of pride in how successful the Walleye stocking went.

Keep in mind that Muskies generally require less energy than all of these other fish species and also keep in mind that none of these fish really live in a natural setting.

B SHEP March 18th, 2016 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HugeEuge57 (Post 1796305)
Says the guy that shreds everything the muskie guy says.

This guy is out for his own agenda plain and simple. He tried it on another site until he got banned...then he came here to try it all over again. He doesn't care about the bass population in any lake and will do what he has to, to get his idea approved. It's sad really.

And when a point is made he ignores it and then comes up with some unproven nonsense that he says is true but when asked for proof...has none.


What points have I ignored? What are you looking for? I have been willing to participate in every discussion to the fullest extent. So far the majority of the people who are against the idea just name-call and insult everyone who supports the idea...

I care a lot more about more than you think bud.

ringer March 18th, 2016 02:21 PM

Dumbass wrote me a PM asking about my opinion on his muskie bullshit. I was very nice to him and asked him to go fishing.

BassTrix March 18th, 2016 02:26 PM

Here's some fodder for you to consider....and I'm going to lump musky, northern, tiger....all the same basic fish...

1. If introduced, will instantly become the lakes top predator and will eat any fish it can...it will even try to eat fish it can't. Simply put, they will devastate the lake if their population is such that you hope to ever catch one.

2. The vast majority of us are bass fishermen....we enjoy the challenge a bass brings and enjoy the many techniques used to catch them. Having a fish that slices your line or maims your favorite bait EVERY time it bites is purely a nuisance to most of us....maybe that's how you're going to bring in more $$...by forcing the rest of us to replace all the lost tackle....

3. They simply won't do well in many of this state's reservoirs. The lakes containing a population of food appropriate to support these voracious predators also generate a thermocline each summer. These fish can live in warmer waters, but they prefer cold water. This limits them to thriving in mountain lakes....these lakes are totally dependent on rainfall....and has already happened....they dry up and fishies die.

4. Some hero will get the idea that every lake needs them and haul them all over the state and wreck every lake there is with these saw-toothed gluttons. I think there are actually a couple lakes that are well suited for them, but I damn sure hope they never get into them. This has already happened..thank God it's not prolific.

5. I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read your statement that they eat different foods and live in different habitat (than bass). They eat exactly the same food, and as long as thermal conditions are appropriate, they'll live in the same spots...or at least the other fish will wish they could live there... I learned to bass fish in both MN and AZ....and as I got better, I would apply tactics from AZ in MN...what I found...lakes with pike and musky...these fish are the top predator and will occupy the top ambush spots...the bass turned out to be in, what I would call, secondary ambush spots... So, as long as conditions are favorable (meaning it's not too warm for the toothy critters), they'll be in the "best" feeding spots. Lakes w/o pike or low populations (cuz damn near every puddle in MN has pike)...the bass were in the top ambush spots.

6. They spawn at an earlier time of year than bass...so their young...if a reproducible species is introduced...will have an advantage over pretty much all other species with regard to surviving...eating fry, not being eaten, etc....

I hear that the Asian Snakehead is a voracious predator...fun to catch...what if someone wanted to introduce them in lieu of musky? Would that be cool? If not, why?

One last tidbit...didn't G&F drain/poison some lakes down south to eliminate the pike that were illegally introduced? I'm too lazy to look it up, so hope someone on here can chime in.

B SHEP March 18th, 2016 02:34 PM

" I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read your statement that they eat different foods and live in different habitat (than bass)."

I'm pretty sure I said something more along the lines that Muskies eat the SAME things Bass do... The difference is, Muskies exist in lower numbers and eat less. I never said Muskies eat different foods and live in different habitat than bass.

Once again... Pike are not the same species of fish as Muskie.

Here is some good information for you BassTrix... This data is based on scientific research done by biologists. I find it odd that you think a fish that has a legend of taking 10,000 casts to catch is a voracious feeding machine...

"Muskie diet samples were collected between May 2007 and May 2012 in Mingo Lake, Otter Lake, Pierce Lake, Ridge Lake, Sam Dale Lake, Lake Shelbyville, and Lake of the Woods located in Illinois. There was no consistent pattern of predation on Largemouth Bass or other game fish species. Shad were the primary forage of Muskies when present. Largemouth Bass populations were analyzed after Muskie introductions in Johnson Lake, Wheel Lake, and Shovel Lake - also located in Illinois. Data and catch records from anglers show that Largemouth Bass populations and overall average size increased after Muskies were introduced.

The Muskie is a very important game fish in Wisconsin and throughout North America. 1,092 Muskie in 34 bodies of water located in Wisconsin were studied from July 1991 to October 1994. Only 34.3% of the total Muskie had food in their stomach. 74% of the Muskie had one single prey item in their stomach. Fish made up 98% of the Muskies diet. Walleye ranked low in the Muskies diet while Yellow Perch were the primary forage."

Delw March 18th, 2016 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BassTrix (Post 1796353)
One last tidbit...didn't G&F drain/poison some lakes down south to eliminate the pike that were illegally introduced? I'm too lazy to look it up, so hope someone on here can chime in.

Thats the one I was trying to think of the other day. for th elife of me I cant remember it or find it and wasnt going to try...


I like the snake head Idea

@#snakeheadlivesmatter



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B SHEP March 18th, 2016 02:40 PM

Let's look at Bartlett Lake again... Do you guys consider Barlett Lake to be a great Bass fishery? I believe it is. It also just so happens to be loaded with Flathead Catfish - a top predator that will eat large quantities of whatever size fish it can fit in its mouth. That entire fishery seems to be in great shape. If Flatheads are not ruining the fishery in Arizona, what makes you believe stocking Muskies in a lake or two is going to ruin things for you?

Skunko! March 18th, 2016 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B SHEP (Post 1796377)
Let's look at Bartlett Lake again... Do you guys consider Barlett Lake to be a great Bass fishery? I believe it is. It also just so happens to be loaded with Flathead Catfish - a top predator that will eat large quantities of whatever size fish it can fit in its mouth. That entire fishery seems to be in great shape. If Flatheads are not ruining the fishery in Arizona, what makes you believe stocking Muskies in a lake or two is going to ruin things for you?

You know why theres no 5+ lb largemouth in bartlett? 40 lb flatheads and structure they can ambush from. Eventually if there wasnt fishing pressure to control them, they would overpopulate to the point where there wouldnt be anything else in the lake like the verde river.

B SHEP March 18th, 2016 02:57 PM

You kinda just proved my point Skunko... It's going to take something more than a few Muskies and some real voracious predators like Flatheads to ruin a healthy lake. Based on the studies done, Muskies will actually improve the overall angler satisfaction for most species and will also help keep the populations healthy.

Skunko! March 18th, 2016 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B SHEP (Post 1796393)
You kinda just proved my point Skunko... It's going to take something more than a few Muskies and some real voracious predators like Flatheads to ruin a healthy lake. Based on the studies done, Muskies will actually improve the overall angler satisfaction for most species and will also help keep the populations healthy.

I dont think I proved your point, unless your point is you want to fish for dink bass. Our desert lakes arent capable of supporting that much biomass because there just arent enough nutrients to go around. Introducing another big predator fish would do nothing but exacerbate an already existing problem.

BassTrix March 18th, 2016 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B SHEP (Post 1796361)
" I about fell out of my chair laughing when I read your statement that they eat different foods and live in different habitat (than bass)."

I'm pretty sure I said something more along the lines that Muskies eat the SAME things Bass do... The difference is, Muskies exist in lower numbers and eat less. I never said Muskies eat different foods and live in different habitat than bass.

Once again... Pike are not the same species of fish as Muskie.

Here is some good information for you BassTrix... This data is based on scientific research done by biologists. I find it odd that you think a fish that has a legend of taking 10,000 casts to catch is a voracious feeding machine...

"Muskie diet samples were collected between May 2007 and May 2012 in Mingo Lake, Otter Lake, Pierce Lake, Ridge Lake, Sam Dale Lake, Lake Shelbyville, and Lake of the Woods located in Illinois. There was no consistent pattern of predation on Largemouth Bass or other game fish species. Shad were the primary forage of Muskies when present. Largemouth Bass populations were analyzed after Muskie introductions in Johnson Lake, Wheel Lake, and Shovel Lake - also located in Illinois. Data and catch records from anglers show that Largemouth Bass populations and overall average size increased after Muskies were introduced.

The Muskie is a very important game fish in Wisconsin and throughout North America. 1,092 Muskie in 34 bodies of water located in Wisconsin were studied from July 1991 to October 1994. Only 34.3% of the total Muskie had food in their stomach. 74% of the Muskie had one single prey item in their stomach. Fish made up 98% of the Muskies diet. Walleye ranked low in the Muskies diet while Yellow Perch were the primary forage."

My bad on misunderstanding your statements about food..totally misread that one.

Yeah, so you can "pretend" that muskies exist in our lakes and cast your arm off....at least you'll be well prepared when you go to a lake that actually has them. :biggrin:

Regardless of Musky being a different species from pike, they both share the same razor-sharp, line and lure destroying, teeth....and I don't care how you want to spin it, a fish of a given size is going to have some average food requirement and since these fish can get quite large, they'll need a substantial amount of food. Keep in mind that metabolism is also temperature dependent...maybe these studies you want me to read are based on fish living in colder waters??

Have you considered that Muskies are known to attack humans? I remember reading articles about this when in MN....I thought it was funny, but the DNR in MN has literature on the subject.


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