[d a]

While hypothetical this scenario is certainly not beyond the realm of possibilities...........

An angler on Saguaro or Canyon Lake is reeling in a 3/4 lb yellow bass when they feel an extra hard tug. They look down and see a huge LM Bass chasing the hooked yellow bass. Stunned and surprised the angler stops reeling in and watches the monster LM engulf the yellow bass. By natural reaction, the angler sets the hook. After a 10 minute battle a new state record LM Bass is boated. The LM Bass is hooked on 2 of the 3 hooks on a Kastmaster spoon. The yellow bass is also landed although somewhat worse for the battle. There are several other anglers who witness the catch. The angler follows all the state record submittal procedures to the letter. Is the bass approved as a new state record??

What will AZ G&F say?

What do you think they should say?

 

[Boat Cop]

I say yes, lawful angling. you did not intentionally use the fish as bait.

 

[PhoenixFirebird]

Your right Boatcop and I agree with you but AZ G&F would shoot it down. They would say the anglers word isn't good or bring up some obscure rule or some other ridiculous tactic to invalidate the catch. The last thing I would expect is AZ G&F is to say “OK great catch nice record”.

 

[d a]

Boat Cop, I hope you're the next Sheriff's officer to pull me over.. "Honest Officer I didn't intend on doing 55 in the 40 mph zone!" :lol: :lol:

 

[samario]

Hypothetical

So, basically, you are asking whether Ken, who accomplishes this wondrous feat routinely (by my pathetic angling standards) would come up a winner? I defer to Mr. Riley and his fish-head cohorts who actually know about such things, but I tend to agree with Boatcop. My GUESS is that we (AGFD) would say "Great catch. Here's your state record." The question is always, did the guy lawfully meet all the criteria?" I do THINK that, under the scenario you depicted, he (or she) did.

Why doesn't this Reply automatically capture the Subject from your posted Topic?

What caused the burr under Phoenix Firebird's saddle, re: AGFD? We can't do much to make somebody happy when their unhappiness is presented as vaguely and unconstructively as his was. Give me something I can carry, PF, and I'll do what I can to ensure that AGFD addresses your concern.

 

[PhoenixFirebird]

I didn’t realize I was unhappy, vague & unconstructive I personally have no concerns with AZGF.
Don’t take this so personally, “ We can't do much to make somebody happy when their unhappiness” you sound like Dr. Phil.....

 

[d a]

Did I mention Ken? Nooooooo...............

The subject line of a reply does not automatically capture the subject line of the topic because to do so would limit your creativity. You can also use it if you need more room for your posts/novels. :roll:

Did you find Elvis while in Memphis?

 

[Spidey]

Law breaker or not, you make the call.

All right all you legal eagles. This is a true story.
I had a yellow on, while reeling it in, and it was about 5 feet from the boat, a huge bass nailed it. I opened the bail to let the bass have his way with the fish. He ran with it for a bit and stopped. I set the hook, or thought I did. Fish on for about 5 seconds and the bass spit out the yellow. Did I break the law?

 

[Skunked]

As an instructor (former), I always hated those "but what if...." questions. But... This is a pretty good one and I know it can happen because stuff like this has happened in the past (well maybe not the record stuff) but I've had a couple friends who've had this happen to them and when I was in Diego Garcia, I saw several pics on a bulletin board of fish that were ate by sharks, while being reeled into a fishing boat. This also happened at Patagonia, years ago. ...that may be an "urban legend".

 

[boatman]

fish that were ate by sharks, while being reeled into a fishing boat. This also happened at Patagonia, years ago. ...that may be an "urban legend".

Ray, SHARKS :shock: SHARKS :? I did not know that there were sharks in Patty :shock:
I don't think I will be fishing there soon

 

[JohnSWA]

I believe that any #@$house lawyer can win this case easily! Let's think about this.

The fisherman(ok, angler to you L.L. Bean types) was using a Kastmaster (preferably 3/8oz. Chrome) and was reeling in a fish. In the process he felt the stronger pull on the line! He sets the hook with zeal and lands the state record!

Ipso Facto record LM bass caught with a Kastmaster!

Using the logic that it was not legal would invalidate any bass caught on an artificial only lake where you caught a hog in the Stick Marsh and it had a shiner in its mouth at the same time!

JMHO, but I think this arguement would be easily won in the fisherman's(Angler's) favor.

 

[Skunked]

You mean they don't have sharks in Saguaro??? Man! That takes all of the fun out of fishing that lake. I just bought an 18” rattle trap too… :wink:

 

[d a]

Spidey, the difference between your true story and my scenario is my hookset was a reflex, your's was premeditated. You actually played with that fish, using the live yellow bass as bait, and then set the hook. You're guilty! JMO

Skunked, You have a wonderful way of writing without saying anything. Yeah its a pretty good question, but what's your answer? Commit dammit!

JohnSWA, an agile prosecuter might argue that bait is food on a hook used to lure fish to strike. The yellow bass is on a hook, therefore bait, the Stick Marsh shiner would not be on a hook, hence not bait.

 

[Spidey]

To Harold

Your quote made me chuckle again. This time, I must sound like I am paranoid. I pride myself in following the rules and regulations for fishing, boating, hunting, or in general, my life. I just found that something I had done fishing/poaching, isn't mentioned anywhere. As for your threadfin shad reference, the threadfin shad is listed as a "Live bait". I have looked through the regulations that I have, and I can't find any mention at all about yellow bass. Why is that? It's like they don't have a category at all. Maybe they are "Straybass"and until they are in the phone book or regulations, they are meaningless. As for your opinion that it would be in the angler's favor. Picture this. I catch a yellow, it gets nailed by a 34 pound Largemouth, I sit there in awe, waiting a bit, watching the yellow disappear into the bass. Now with an "in awe" retrieve, one very lucky, wimpy hook from the kastmaster hooks solid into the bass. With my super Spidey fishing skills and with Toad's finely tuned and well rehearsed netting skills, we get the fish in the boat. We take it to an official scale and whoo whoo, free p-line and kastmasters forever. Would I break a record or would I be fined? Would officials find that the circumstances would make this an illegal catch? If a legal catch, that would mean yellows are legal if you don't get caught using them purpose to catch fish. Some say it would be legal if you caught this bass by accident. Who's to say it wasn't possession of a yellow with intent.

 

[Fish Manager]

As I see it, if the largemouth is caught by accident (meaning that you did not attempt to entice that fish to bite) while in the act of reeling in the yellow bass then it's a good catch. The record would be yours.

However, lets say the largemouth bass misses in its first attempt to grab the yellow bass. You the angler, sees it happen and decides to release the bail and let the yellow bass swim away in hopes that it will entice a second strike from the largemouth bass. Once you release that bail, you have made the decision to use that yellow bass as a live bait in an effort to catch that largemouth bass. Once you make that deicsion to use the yellow bass as live bait in an effort to catch the largemouth bass or any other fish for that matter, any fish you catch after that point would be illegal.

As for proving that your catch was legal, unless a witness to teh catch tells us different, or we catch you in the act, we are going to take your word that the fish was caught legally. No where on the application form does it ask for a witness to the catch. We ask for a witness to the weighing of the fish but not the catch. What it boils down to is, does your ethics as an angler allow you to claim the state record??

 

[Boat Cop]

Ok dude, you got it straight from the Horses mouth, (no implying your a horse fish manager). Game and fish guys are generally pretty reasonable, they do get testy when you do not have a license in your possession or when you say f#@k off critter cop, you cant do anything to me. Saw that one happen once. But when you blatently break the law, "no matter how good your intentions are" you will get cited

 

[Spidey]

To Fish Manager

Thanks for the most valid and acceptable response yet. It seems like such a grey area though. If I wasn't an "Ethical Sportsman" I wouldn't have worried about it to begin with. It just seems too iffy to have a nice fish being illegal because I opened my bail, and legal if I didn't. I can't imagine anyone that has a 34 pound largemouth sucking up an "angled" yellow, trying not to do everything they can to boat that fish. Greed is an amazing thing. How come yellow bass are not listed anywhere in the regulations, or do I need to look at the complete set of regulations to find details on them? Dave.

 

[Fish Manager]

Spidey

Since yellow bass do not have any specific regulations such as a bag/possession limit or size limits they do not need to be listed. And are instead covered under number 12 on page 5. Which reads: All other species unlimited statewide. You'll notcie that white bass are not listed as well along with several other species which all fall under this part of the rule.

 

[Spidey]

Thanks again. I value your opinion and will fish accordingly. Dave

 

[Guest]

damm big yellow

Gosh - did you see the size of that yellow that tried to knock this largemouth off my spoon.... :roll: :wink: