[conquistador]

When it comes to Big Bass Days(BBDs), why is it better to kill fish in the fall than in the spring?

Why is it better to have BBDs in the fall? If you kill a 9lber in the fall it can't spawn the next spring.

I want to understand the logic, because it seems to me to make no difference when to hold BBDs.

I know post could be considered as "stiring the pot", but I would like to understand so I can either support, not support or remain impartical to moving the BBDs.

conquistador

 

[Dreamer]

I would think the main reason would be that there would be far more interested big females prowling the shallows in the spring. Interested as in looking for beds, protecting beds, etc. The other factor would be removing the big males from the beds. Both could have negative consequences towards renewing the resource. In the fall there would still be bass taken but it would be far less and they would not be reproducing.

 

[champ204]

probaly because in the spring theres lots of big female sittin in shallow water on beds and when a big bass is on a bed its is alot easier to catch .

 

[Delw]

When it comes to Big Bass Days(BBDs), why is it better to kill fish in the fall than in the spring?

The main reason why the BBDs should be changed from spring to fall is not the killing of bass but that they are being pulled off beds during the spawn. eggs coming out in a live well or holding tank at or on the way to weighin less eggs equal less bass that will spawn/hatch

Why is it better to have BBDs in the fall? If you kill a 9lber in the fall it can't spawn the next spring.

your right you kill any bass it wont spawn, see note above for reason. The bed fishing during the spring is the main reason to have this tourny run in the fall.

I want to understand the logic, because it seems to me to make no difference when to hold BBDs.

The whole Idea of getting the tourny moved is not due to fish dying but to the spawn. the fish dying issue needs to be taken care of reguardless and that has to do with rules that are non existant in the past tourny's

I know post could be considered as "stiring the pot", but I would like to understand so I can either support, not support or remain impartical to moving the BBDs.

this is not stirring the pot.


Delw

 

[conquistador]

Delw,

Oh yes, you are right. I forgot about the "disrupting the spawn" aspect of taking fish off beds. Not that I'm ready to take a position. Here's a follow up comments and questions.


Scenario 1) A female dumping her eggs.
It would seem like this would happen to only a low percentage of fish that were caught and later released. Or a low percentage of the total eggs. Is there data that supports this scenario?

Scenario 2) A male guarding a nest is removed and the eggs are scavenged.
Well this also seems very unlikely in BBDs as most males are not worth weighing for BBDs. Not to say that some people don't do just that. It is highly likely in a regular catch and release tournament during spawn.

 

[Franklin J]

Fish are not on beds in the Fall(therefore not as predictable)

You can't sight fish big females in the fall(unless your JasonR)

Most bass are not full of eggs in the fall

Franklin

 

[Franklin J]

Joe your a tournament fisherman, you know that all anglers do not handle their fish they way they should, now if you handle your big female carefully, dumping eggs shouldn't be an issue, but how many anglers do that? 70% best guess? I think why make it an issue and just have it during the fall...................

 

[Brown Dog]

Only to continue the flow of conversation. What about all of the other tournaments on the lakes in the spring? The spawning fish are still targeted, they spend all day running around the lake in someone's livewell (which isn't always a smooth ride), then they get drug to the weigh-in in plastic bags with little water and usually thrown back into the lake. Unless of course it's one of the bigger tourneys and they have a release boat. The males don't get ignored during this time because you usually need all the fish you catch for weight. They only real advantage is that they don't usually suffer the gut-hook scenerio that live bait fishing presents.

 

[Delw]

Scenario 1) A female dumping her eggs.
It would seem like this would happen to only a low percentage of fish that were caught and later released. Or a low percentage of the total eggs. Is there data that supports this scenario?

Ive seen this happen only once or twice during the tourny the data would be what people see I would think. Ive been told that it has happened on a few other occassions also.

Scenario 2) A male guarding a nest is removed and the eggs are scavenged.
Well this also seems very unlikely in BBDs as most males are not worth weighing for BBDs. Not to say that some people don't do just that. It is highly likely in a regular catch and release tournament during spawn.

Joe you fish tournys and you know how it works during bed fishing. you pick up everyfish you can get and cull them as time goes by. the cycle goes for three days. Dont forget there are people behind you doing the same thing.

so you pick up one little 2 lber and put him in your live well, move to another part of the lake and find a 2.5, you dump the 2 right there. However there are people that fill there livewells with lots of fish so they can get into all the weigh-ins. believe it or not a 1.5 will get you a check during big bass days at times , most fish(average) brought in are between 1.5-3 lbs(from what I have seen).



Brown dog: you bring up a very good point, however there isnt a tourny in az that matchs the one day totals of BBDS on the number of boats during the spawn. and there is not a 3 day tourny on lake pleasant during the prime spawn. The tournys are usually small clubs.

Randy at monetery isnt having his tourny in april due to the spawn.


Aside from that there are other things that people might not beaware of that goes on during big bass day, and this is you can shore fish anywhere on the lake(but you have to bring your LIVE bass back to the marina for weigh-in) when was the last time you seen a livewell in a pick-up or yugo? What usually happens is the fish is brought in a 5 gal bucket or cooler, I an others have seen this done. as far away as castle creek and even the river thats closed to fishing big bass days.
Forrest(aka Few)last year said there was a bunch of bass boats and guys fishing bigbassdays in the river off the table mesa road area. I know a few thats fished back there as well and they cashed checks, of cource I didnt know about it till the following week, or I would have said something.

I also know a guy who caught all his fish in the am then ran the lake looking for bigger ones(which is against the rules) they won a ton of checks all three days.
I was told the rules state you are only allowed to have 1 fish per person in the boat( I have never seen them in the rules), however there is no enforcement and most guys dont know that, you can ask almost anyone fishing it and they will tell you they have 3-5 fish in there live well each. they catch as many as they can and then wait for weigh-ins some dont weigh in there fish until they are sure they have a money fish, if they dont then they will wait for the next weigh-in.

Then you have the guys that prefish all week(which there is nothing worng with) but yet they pay someone or sit on the hole over night so no one gets there fish and they have a chance at a big one.





Delw

 

[Guest]

delw

I think Joe asked for facts, all you ever say is I heard this or that, stories sure get strected from one person to the next. I don't support or condone this tournament, but until you support your stance with hard core facts I believe your are just runnig in circles.

You state there are a number of lives wells that never work, probably true but these people fish throughout the year with broken live wells and kill fish. Granted a three day tourney using live bait will have a bigger fish kill than a regular one day tournament. Fisherman use live bait year around on these lakes, so I believe the fish kill is greater through out the year than this three day tourament. Fish are in these lakes to catch, eat or what ever. You have said this yourself.

The spawn: You are probably right that it would help the fish population if it was moved to the fall. Then all touranments and fishing should be banned during the spawn. Don't single out one tournament. I believe tournament and fun fishing hurt the spawn equally so. There's hundreds of individuals that never fish tourneys that live for the spawn including yourself, these fish get just as stressed from everyday fisherman as well as tournament fisherman.. It's just more noticeable during bill luke big bass days.

I believe these lakes have plenty of fish for everybody. I have caught more and bigger fish the last three years than anytime in arizona. I can't speak for no-fish pleasant because I don't fish it. But from what I read, I think the bass population is plentiful at pleasant. Maybe not as many big fish as in the midlle nineties but still a lot of fish. It goes back to the ole saying you gotta know how to catch them, just ask dreamer he doesn't have a problem. Watch your results from everstart except for a few from az most of the winners will come from ca, check last years result after brett hite. There are some that know how to fish pleasant.

I'm not knocking you on your stance, I think you raise valid points but your critism of one you aspect of fishing should be applied to all. Get the hard core facts and present them to the fish/game and you might get better action/results then this guy said this and this one said that. Otherwise I think you and Denny have an outstanding site.

2Dogs

 

[conquistador]

I seen strong reason to move it to the fall.

BBDs is no different than other tournaments except that it seems that there is more fish kill. Therfore, moving to the fall will have no impact on fish reproduction.

 

[d a]

Just for everyone's information. At a AGFD Round Table meeting, when the Bill Luke BBDs rep, Dan Mayberry, was asked for the reason the tourney couldn't be moved to the fall his answer was: "The sponsor is after summer car sales."

(2dogs: That's a FACT, I took notes at the meeting :lol: )

 

[Delw]

2dogs.

Facts well thats hard to define:

fact ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fkt)
n.
Knowledge or information based on real occurrences: an account based on fact; a blur of fact and fancy.

Something demonstrated to exist or known to have existed: Genetic engineering is now a fact. That Chaucer was a real person is an undisputed fact.
A real occurrence; an event: had to prove the facts of the case.
Something believed to be true or real: a document laced with mistaken facts.
A thing that has been done, especially a crime: an accessory before the fact.
Law. The aspect of a case at law comprising events determined by evidence: The jury made a finding of fact.

Idiom:
in (point of) fact
In reality or in truth; actually.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Latin factum, deed, from neuter past participle of facere, to do. See dh- in Indo-European Roots.]
Usage Note: Fact has a long history of usage in the sense “allegation of fact,” as in “This tract was distributed to thousands of American teachers, but the facts and the reasoning are wrong” (Albert Shanker). This practice has led to the introduction of the phrases true facts and real facts, as in The true facts of the case may never be known. These usages may occasion qualms among critics who insist that facts can only be true, but the usages are often useful for emphasis.

Facts themselves are what? someone writing a colum in a bass magazine? someone from game and fish saying x amount of fish caught and killed?

You state there are a number of lives wells that never work

No I stated that alot of people dont have live wells, that fish this tourny, it has never been requiered

The spawn: You are probably right that it would help the fish population if it was moved to the fall. Then all touranments and fishing should be banned during the spawn. Don't single out one tournament. I believe tournament and fun fishing hurt the spawn equally so. There's hundreds of individuals that never fish tourneys that live for the spawn including yourself, these fish get just as stressed from everyday fisherman as well as tournament fisherman.. It's just more noticeable during bill luke big bass days.

No thats not true Having a fish for 2-5 mins and haveing one all day makes a big difference, when prefishing for bedded bass or fun fishing for bedded bass people dont carry them all over the lake in there livewell.

One thing to remember it isnt only about fish being killed(there are not that many being killed), its the sloppyness of how they are taken care of. All other tournys have to abide by rules, that they themselfs set. And most importantly its about moveing that many fish during the spawn.



I also believe and always have believed that there are many fish in lake pleasant and some pretty big ones at that. Also last year was my best year at pleasant for fish over 8 lbs.


Delw

 

[Dreamer]

FOOD FOR THOUGHT

Ummmm...yeah....2dogs and all concerned...this is a tough one. It is like arguing about religion. Everyone believes that if you don't follow their guidelines, then you are going to hell. I do not condemn anyone's beliefs. I just have my own, long-winded ideals...and you are about to hear them.

Personally, I have seen a decline in the Pleasant fishery, just as everyone has. Was it due to the BBD factor? Or was it the culmination of many factors? The coincidence of the onslaught of BBD and the decline of big bass in Pleasant can not be ignored. BUT, the New-Lake-Effect, striped bass, depletion of cover (campfires), other large tourneys, and just plain everyday fishing pressure by much more knowledgeable anglers, can all be thrown into this mix. I remember reports (yes, I know this is hearsay) of some guy using downriggers catching numerous 10 lbers. per day and he KEPT all of them. I actually witnessed 4 bass over 8 lbs. sprawled out behind the snack bar, baking in the sun. When I questioned the man, who was using HOTDOGS, why he was keeping these fish, he sheepishly said, "Because, I can".

I am sure there are many more of these tall tales or facts, whichever way you may to quantify these as being. The true fact is......THIS LAKE IS NOT WHAT IT USED TO BE.

Yes, to condemn one tourney over others is unfair. But there is NO tourney in Arizona that has such a pell-mell, devil-may-care attitude that BBD does. The no live-well required, live-bait- allowed-attitude coupled with the extreme numbers of fishermen, just means trouble.

Okay, Bill Luke wants to sell cars in the summer. Fine, I can understand this. But would it not make more since to sell the nice, new, next year models in the Fall? I just CAN NOT IGNORE the fact that bass can be caught all year long. Why hold this tourney when big fish are at their most vulnerable? I think that it would actually add a sense of drama to this tourney to see who could come up with a nice 10 lber later in the year. A Pleasant fish that size is very rare come Autumn. If you do not believe me then look at any tourney standings. THIS IS A FACT.

Ummm....I am foaming at the mouth again. I hate when others run on and on, and here I am doing it. Pleasant is far from dead. It has fish, it is not a barren lake. Right now it separates the men from the boys. Damn, it sure was nice though when I caught that 12 lb 5 oz beauty back in '99. I guess we all long for those glory days and wonder why we can never re-live them again....

 

[NuDay]

It sounds like some people don't like the rules. live bait, spawn fishing. WDW wed & fri Nite allows live bait!!! If we are trully concerned about the spawn then maybe there should be no fishing for a 4 week period. :shock: How can anybody think there be 2 different set of rules to follow: either live bait is allowed or its not; Fish during the spawn or don't, catch and release only or a limit. The same rules need to apply to every one.
I choose not to fish BBD and that is my choice. Be littleing the people that fish it is not a nice thing to do; they have a right to be there. the problem is with the officials of the event. And yes I have a 5# fish on my wall and should I get a 12 it will probably go there too. (skin or replica haven't decided)
Does anybody know if bbd logo has a coppyright? I would guess that it would be. I think that an entity that does not defend their coppyrights can lose them.

 

[champ204]

in my opinion BILL LUKE only cares about money he has no concern for the future of lake pleasant. what he can't get in his head is if he keeps having these tournys at the same time of year and with the same rules he's going to wipe out the future of even having blbbd. if he does not change the rules then he is hurting more than lake pleasant it will start effecting him and bill luke dodge................. SO MY QUESTION TO EVERY ONE IS WHAT CAN WE FISHERMAN DO TO CHANGE THIS SITUATION ???????

 

[NuDay]

Don't fish it. Ask your club not to fish durring the spawn. If the big names don't come & the clubs don't fish durring the spawn; then they would look foolish. Even the media would even be on your side. A car dealership does not want to get bad press.
You just don't want them to play cause they're to big.
Target, Sears and other dept stores either put away their fishing stuff or don't restock untill Feb. Even bass pro shops targets their marketing at the spawn. Untill you can get tackle sales to peak out in July or Oct. I can not see how you will win.

 

[champ204]

nuday your 100% correct theres really nothing that can be done now.

 

[Guest]

Just move BIG BASS DAYS to a canal somewhere. Feel like I opened a can of worms when I asked my orignal question. But reading all the post's don't think I will be attending this year. Never been to one and thought of going but not now or the future until there are some rules enforced.

 

[NightRanger]

I posted the above statement.